DCPs on DCI compliant External HDD/USB

[clownshoe]

The formatting is standard, no issues there. Never an issue with CRU recognition and ingest.

This query is regarding external HDD.

Been running into situations where some cinema servers will recognize the drive, and then taking it to a different cinema, different cinema server, and it is recognized.

Can't seem to reconcile what the issue is. But it seems to be hardware related.

Are there any new current standards in regard to hardware, as it relates to external HDD for DCPs?

That is, drives (when formatted properly) will be read across ALL cinema servers.

[Carsten]

What formatting is standard?

For a long time, 3.5" CRU sleds have been the defacto standard. Now, all servers offering these drive bays are legacy servers, and all current servers (IMS) will only support USB or external SATA/eSATA for local ingest.

There is and never was a formal hardware standard for DCI compliant ingest media. Issues will usually be related to individual server/media incompatibilities. However, if the drive has been formatted properly to ext2/ext3 or NTFS, I never heard of issues that could not be solved by some basic trial and error on site. Unfortunately, often cinema staff has very little experience with solving issues and often tell bullshit that doesn't help with finding the cause.

[clownshoe]

Hey Cartsten,

In regard to formatting, Ext2/Ext3 is what I mean.

Never a problem in regard to CRU, on any cinema server whatsoever.

But when it comes to differing External USB HDDs, formatted Ext2/Ext3, some systems will recognize just fine and some won't. (And I'm talking about interfacing directly into the cinema server.)

Sometimes these DCP drives are built with, say, a Toshiba 2.5" HDD that is formatted and then placed inside of a separate enclosure (like this:

Then it'll read just fine here at Paramount, but then at another cinema in town, where I've been in the booth to witness it, it is simply not recognized by the cinema server. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

So my question is, would it simply be best to stick with all-in-one External HDD from, say, WD or Seagate?

You're absolutely right about the on-site folks, god bless em. It's like going to the hardware store these days and honestly just knowing more than the 'experts' that work there. Bit frustrating. So, as always, I'm trying to make things idiot proof.

CRUs I reserve for features. But external USB HDD I like to use for shorts/etc. And it's not a problem 98% of the time. Just some servers are weird about it and I can't seem to zero in on what the issue is. But knowing that it's not a formatting issue (because it isn't), I feel like I want to land on a piece of hardware, in regard to External USD HDDs, that all cinema servers will recognize.

[mhm]

What formatting is standard?

Maybe not a strict standard, but since 2009 ISDCF has published ” ISDCF Document 3 – Hard Disc Drive formats”. Last revised in 2017:

https://www.isdcf.com/technical-docs/

[clownshoe]

Thanks for the link, I will check it out today. Every Little bit of information helps. I'm determined to find a solid solution.

[clownshoe]

What formatting is standard?

Maybe not a strict standard, but since 2009 ISDCF has published ” ISDCF Document 3 – Hard Disc Drive formats”. Last revised in 2017:

https://www.isdcf.com/technical-docs/

So, reading the isdcf notes and looking at this:

"For maximum compatibility, a content distributor should assume that a USB 2.0 type A receptacle is exposed by the ingest device.

For ingest system designers, new systems should support legacy USB devices, although the hardware may expose a USB 3.0, 3.1, or later USB interface."

So if I'm reading this correctly: I should assume that all cinema servers are capable of accepting USB 2.0. Because if some cinema servers are being asked to ingest a 3.0 or 3.1 drive it may not work? But USB 2.0 is the solid default? USB 2.0 enclosure. USB 2.0 cable.

This hasn't been my experience until this particular drive/cable on this particular server.

But becuase this is driving me nuts, I physically drove with the drive to an AMC cinema today, a Laemmle theatre, and a cinema on the lot at WB. Three cinemas. Each one recognized and read the drive. They did so using the cable that came with the drive enclosure. And the indie theatre last night was the only one that cannot read this particular drive. Also at that indie theatre, I gave them a CRU to ingest. Worked just fine. And they had a external USB HDD on hand and plugged it in using MY cable and it read.

It's maddening, because it makes you wonder how many instances like this are out there in the world.

Pivoting to an additional question:
What's the general consensus on the idea of partitioning a drive where half is Ext3 and the other half is NTFS, and then mounting the DCP to both sides, thereby giving a cinema server that can read both Ext3 and NTFS the option to utilize either partition? Also, as a side benefit, it would allow the cinema to utilize the NTFS partition on PC, on-site, if they are having ingest issues for whatever reason. (I.e. The ability to then migrate the DCP from the NTFS partition on the External HDD USB drive on a PC to a CRU for ingest.)

(I was going to delete the above question just now, because when I continued reading in the Del. racs doc, it seems to state that multiple partitions are a bad idea. Still open to thoughts/option, though, so I'm leaving the question.)

[IoannisSyrogiannis]

Two things come to mind:
1) MBR is preferable to GPT.
2) USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 drives provide different power (0.5A and 0.9A respectively, x5V and you figure out the watts). That difference may allow an external 2.5" HDD (usually without external power supply or Y cable) to work and another to fail.

[clownshoe]

Evening Ioannis,

1. Indeed, the drives are ALWAYS MBR.
2. 2.0 vs 3.0 is something I'm leaning into. A power issue.

So today I went on a journey. I took the drive that couldn't be recognized last night at the indie theatre to:

- Paramount Studios - Sherry Lansing Theatre
- AMC 16 Cinema
- Laemmle Cinema
- GDC local offices here in Burbank

All recognized/ingested/playedback at 100% with zero issues.

But at the indie cinema, it wouldn't recognize it. Yet it would recognize another drive on-site (as a test) using the cable I provided (just to test the cable as well).

Power issue... any chance the cinema server was drawing too much power doing other things that it perhaps wouldn't recognize the drive? A movie was playing at the moment, which usually wouldn't make a difference. But, I'm open to anything at this point. Because as it stands, it feels like their cinema server is wonky.

[barber]

Hi,
Regarding the multiple-partitions case I can confirm it causes problems. (Reminds me of when a drive with 2 partitions - one NTFS, one HFS+ - actually got erased by the server during the DCP ingest!). We should stick to MBR (so ≤ 2 TB) with only one ext2/ext3/NTFS partition.
Regarding the hardware question, I have no precise info. I can only say that I have used 2,5" WD all-in-one USB 3.0 drives and 3,5" SATA/USB 3 enclosures (with external power supply) on hundreds of venues successfully. I remember a few problems with cheap USB 2.0 external HDDs or with Y-cables.

What kind of HDD is the one that doesn't mount in the indie theater?

[clownshoe]

Thanks a lot for the response, barber.

Your confirmation regarding the multiple partitions is helpful. I'll stay away from that for sure. Seemed like a good idea when it popped in my head today. Like a sort of fail-safe. But I'll continue to stick with MBR.

The 2.5" External USB drive is a Toshiba MK5065GsXF.

It's inside of this enclosure:
https://eng.ssk.cn/Product_details/1309 ... 54208.html

I've used these Toshiba drives (as well as WD, Seagate, etc.) in this enclosure without any issues for years. But just this ONE DRIVE, in this ONE ENCLOSURE, won't recognize on this ONE CINEMA SERVER and I can't let it go.