Subtitle and Closed Caption in 1 CPL

[clundy]

I believe it is technically possible for a single CPL to contain BOTH a subtitle and a closed caption, correct?

Filmmaker may not know what they really need, but if they have English Subtitles as well as English closed captions is it typical to just put them together in a single CPL?
(In this case a VF CPL probably, as the OV CPL would be entirely clean with foreign spoken language).

Does having both types of timed text in same CPL sometimes cause problems in the field on some servers/projectors?
Looking for pros and cons for keeping together vs making separate CPLs.

Would it be best to package as SMPTE or Interop in this case, if it matters at all?

I would definitely make sure every reel has both so that there is no imbalance.

thanks.
Chris

[Carsten]

You can have both a subtitle and multiple closed caption tracks. The idea behind closed caption tracks is that you can have multiple languages wrapped in the DCP, and the people may be able to select their preferred language from a personal device. I don't know if many DCPs exist with multiple languages, but that is what the format and standard allows. ClosedCaption devices are not in such widespread use anyway.


Wether both should go into the same CPL depends on what is wanted. If the content of subtitle and closed caption is the same, there is little reason to have them both in the same CPL - simply because the subtitle will always play on screen, and the closed captions won't be necessary (except if they are in a different language).

One thing that most people out of the exhibition business do not know is: When there is a subtitle track contained in a CPL, this subtitle track will always play. The typical cinema operator will not be able to switch off the subtitles. This is not like a DVD-Player that has a ir-remote key to enable/disable subtitles. If you want to enable the playout of a CPL without subtitles, you need to create a CPL without subtitles.

I never see commercial DCPs being mastered as a 'main' CPL that includes closed captions - captioned CPLs always come as a VF. Often they also contain HI/VI-N tracks, plus, some servers may be configured to display closed captions on-screen(!) - Doremi servers allow that. That could cause unwanted side-effects if this CPL is the only CPL available - so, they usually come 'optional' as VFs.

There is no reason nowadays not to master SMPTE.

[clundy]

thanks Carsten.

Here in NY we are constantly doing closed captions all the time now. Festivals and distributors are making this the norm now, unlike 5+ years ago.
Most of the time for English language films the EN closed captions are just included in the main OV CPL package as they don't get in the way of regular use of the OV, same with VI-Naudio, just in the same OV. VFs have been left for doing various other subtitle CPLs, open captions, or other audio configurations like 7.1 or Atmos.

I just had not come across subs plus captions together very often. I think in this case the spoken language is not English, but the expected audience will be English speaking. So the main OV CPL won't have any timed text. We'd likely do a VF for subtitles + captions. The English subs and English closed captions are very similar, except that the captions obviously have descriptions of sounds, music, speaker identification etc.
So I can see a reason to have BOTH in the same CPL if they meet different needs.
But can also see why to keep each in a separate VF.
Explaining all of it to clients often makes their head spin if DCP work is new to them.

Thanks again,
Chris

[Carsten]

Yeah, in the US, its probably different due to ADA regulations. I think I have never seen a subtitled AND CC CPL. But then again, this is Europe, and regulations are different. Basically, agree to all what you wrote. Of course, commented captions are different from subtitles.